People First! with Morag Barrett

Welcome to this week's episode of People First. And my guest this week is a friend and colleague, Stephen George. Stephen is a seasoned voice actor, audio professional, broadcast producer, and brings more than a decade of experience in the field. In fact, Eric Ruby and I spent many hours recording narrating you me we with Stephen's help and it was such a fabulous experience I've just completed the narration for the second edition of Cultivate the Power of Winning Relationships more on those in a minute However, Stephen at Twin Flames is directly involved with all audiobook projects, from setting up discovery calls to direct live recording sessions, to uploading the finished audiobooks for purchase. He wants all authors to know that his process is not about perfection, but about getting it right, and there is a big difference. Well, Stephen, welcome to People First. Thanks, Morag. So happy to be here. And you've basically made the story already, so I'm not sure why I need to be here. Oh, I just want to listen to your dulcet tones. And we're going to get on to listening and your ability to listen deeply in due course. But I'm going to start this episode, as I do with all, I just want to know your origin story. So when you were a wee lad, what did you want to be when you imagined growing up and adulting? sure so I would say when I was much much younger elementary age or so I think I wanted to be a firefighter you know help people uh you know save the day be the hero all of those wonderful things that we think of um and then once I got into high school you know grades nine through twelve or so that sadly changed however uh to to what was more I think exciting for me at the time which was to be a journalist Oh, so you enjoy writing? Yes. And in fact, my senior year of high school, I interned at my hometown newspaper and then turned that into a guest writing position on occasion throughout my college years. I think I'm showing my age there. I suddenly thought, why did I assume that to be a journalist, one has to write? Because there are so many different versions of journalism and reporting on stories and insights now available to us. But writing, obviously, you were there in the newspaper at school. And so what brought you then to what you do today? Well, I think there were several steps along the way and sort of a linear path eventually. in that I started in my hometown newspaper writing and was doing that in college. While I was also in college, I was learning how to be a television news reporter. I was taking some courses and shifted into an internship at a local television station there where we, that I then transitioned once I had my degree into a morning news producer where I was writing the news, which also meant that I was talking about story placement, how long they were going to be, who was going to say it, what was going to be said, graphics, the whole nine yards. So really sort of I guess, planning and project management on a daily basis as well from that standpoint. So what is it that goes into making a compelling news story or communicating any message in those small, finite pieces of time? What advice do you have for leaders listening to this that you've picked up through your career? Yes. My opinion, I think, is a little different than others in that I tried to let the facts speak for themselves, whether that be numbers or the person's perspective that we were interviewing at the time. That's the story, not necessarily what was said or rather how it was said, I guess. And for me, what captures attention versus what translates is very different. I keep saying we. I found it at the time that sometimes presenting news wasn't always what people wanted in terms of ratings. And so that was a little difficult to swallow sometimes in terms of what people wanted. And always from a local standpoint, weather always led, right? Like if there was snow, especially in North Carolina, central North Carolina at the time where I was working, you know, weather always, situations was always what was going to lead. So we just played into that a little bit and then allowed the other stories of the day to give center stage as much as possible in terms of what was happening in the local governments and school systems and things like that. So now you help authors to tell their story in the recording and narration of their books. So let's start with the basics. If we have an author listening to this who's thinking about doing their first audio books, what's one thing they should be thinking about that may not be yet on their list? And what's one thing to avoid when it comes to recording? yeah I would say the biggest thing to do that I always talk to my authors about is please prep and from a prep standpoint meaning like read your book out loud spend some time whether this is at the beginning of the process that you're just kind of writing and haven't sent it to an editor yet Or if you're kind of down the line and think you're getting closer to publishing and want to record your audiobook, definitely spend some time reading your book out loud because it's going to help you determine those long sentences. Because usually we'll have authors come back and say, why did I write that sentence that way? Because writing is very different than speaking to people or having a conversation. Like we are today. And so depending upon the way that you want to present your information, really, that can change a lot. And we work with our authors consistently about, you know, when you're recording your audio book, is that how you want to say that? And the nice thing about audio books is they don't have to be word for word. with the print book. Nobody is going back and checking if, you know, line by line, if you said everything that's there. And sometimes it opens up opportunities for authors to add like little side notes or asides or little anecdotes occasionally that is unique to the audiobook experience. And one of the worst things, I think, is to not practice. So I think they're one in the same, because if you didn't practice what you're going to record that particular day, then it's going to sound like you're reading off the page. And are you doing your audience a service when you do that? Um, they want to, they, yes, they want the story from you directly, but that performance piece of it really plays a role in all of this. And, you know, you and, uh, Eric and Ruby have all done a fantastic job with you, me, we, and then you obviously continuing that with Cultivate second edition. It's, it's a very personal experience when the, when the author knows where they're going with the content, because it is one thing to know to, yes, you wrote the book. We all know, you know, the content, but being able to speak, it is just a little different. Yeah, and I think I hit all of those points for good, bad and indifferent throughout our time together because reading in your head names and words just to enunciate the difference between an English pronunciation and an American pronunciation, which you caught me on, and then I had to make a call. So, you know, being British, that won out, though I think I threw in a few zeds. You'll have to listen to the book and let me know, audience, if you can hear the difference. LAUGHTER But I know going into it, there is that assumption, well, I wrote it, I should be able to read it. But, of course, hearing your own voice out loud with the headphones on, et cetera, it brings a different timbre to the, I don't even know, is that how you pronounce it? It just sounds weird in your own head when you hear your voice out loud. And then we can be more critical. So how do you keep your authors engaged and not just throwing up their hands and going, I can't do this? yes we absolutely are our own worst critics and I live that through my other work as a voice actor I had to come up get over that hunt myself just getting used to hearing myself on recording versus what I think I sound like and so in terms of keeping people you know engaged that part of our process at twin flames is lean lends itself more to that where we Have somebody listening real time when the authors are recording. They are never alone in the process. And we talk about our authors or talk to our authors rather about how an audio book needs to be sort of a one-on-one intimate conversation. Like you're there in the room with someone. And I think our process just lends itself in that they have that person in real time in that process. And so if they have questions about how to handle a chart or a graph or just bullet points or whatever in general, they've got somebody to kind of bounce ideas off in real time. What do you think of this? And it sort of opens the space up, not just into a, I got to focus on what I'm reading in front of me, but still kind of a thoughtful process and real time kind of processing. in that way that I think is really beneficial for the authors. So I want to go a little deeper on the listening piece, because one of the things that blew my mind during our time together is that you weren't just listening to the words, which let's face it, I know for me can easily become wah, wah, wah, wah. And even if the book is interesting, listening to what is being said is one level, but you were going deeper. You were listening, or for the ice-making machine going off and creating background noise that I couldn't hear, so we had to switch that off. The plane going overhead, I was sitting in a basement recording, but you heard it. But also you were listening to the, oh, you ran out of breath, or, yeah, you just fluffed your words a little bit. So I think many of the leaders listening will have been told at some point, either at home or at work, that they need to listen more. Mm-hmm. So what comes to mind for you in terms of how is it that you are able to listen so deeply, so intently for those extended periods of time? I think for me, it's just my background. Like my whole goal, like I mentioned, being in high school was I wanted to be able to tell other people's stories. And that means I have to listen to them. And not just to respond, like I really want to hear them. And yes, you know, we talk about, as you mentioned, the planes and whatever the microphone is going to pick up because it will, it will pick it up as you have heard. And, but for me, you know, I get to spend time with the author in their content. And so for me, it's a constant question of asking myself, if I was the author, is that how I would want to say that? Because they have the idea in mind, but they're focused on those words in front of them. So as a director, we get to say, okay, yes, you said it, but then ask the follow-up. Is that really how you want to present that information? And then sometimes it can be, you know, I actually play it back for them the way they said it. Other times it's, I provide a suggestion, you know, Hey, why don't you say it more, you know, finishing or yes, you said it out of breath, you know, let's, and usually the author starts to pick up on those things. As we go down that road in the recording sessions, they start to notice and want to make their own changes. So it's definitely a partnership in that way in that, yes, I can sort of lead the conversation until they're like, Oh, I get it. And they, they start to think for themselves and it starts to become part of the process as well. Generally, though, for me, it's just I want to hear what they have to say and make sure the way they want to portray this information comes across in a professional way that they can be proud of. I'm curious, are you as an effective listener in all aspects of your life or is it a lights, camera action? When you're in the studio, you can do it. Are you consistent elsewhere, too? Ask my wife. She'd say no. Yeah, I was going to say, you're asking the wrong person. But I think my personal life also comes into it as well because my wife and I have been married for almost seventeen years and we have two kids and our daughter has epilepsy. And so that requires a different level of understanding on her part, but also a different level of us kind of explaining things too, which I think helps me in the directing arena, because I could say something plainly to her brother and he's going to get it right. I'm going to just rattle it off. But with her, I may, she may, you know, kind of look at me like, well, what do you, what do you mean? What are you asking? And so asking it in a, in a different way. So I think that added level of patience, just from being a parent, uh, to play here, certainly. And it is hard for me when I listened to audio books, just as a consumer, um, in terms of, you know, just being that customer of a client, like, oh, just turning it off. Because at some point I do want to enjoy it as well. I don't want it to be work. I want it to just sit back and yep. I'm hearing exactly what you're saying and just move forward and not critique along the way. In the studio, how do you remain focused when you feel your mind starting to wander? What's your tactic for coming back and being so deeply present? I think for me, we build in breaks with our authors. Sometimes the author will request it up front. So I take advantage of that. Others I'll say, maybe about an hour in or so. Hey, before we move into this next section, let's take a couple of minutes, right? Let me go up and walk around for a minute or go grab a glass of water, something along those lines, just as kind of a reset. And when we were recording You, Me, We, I was recording the three of you back to back. in that week of time that we sort of had. So the three of you were able to catch a break, whereas me, I'm like, all right, I'm going to have to ask, right? So be upfront about it and say, yes, six hours of recording a day is a lot. So I'm going to need a little bit of extra time that I wouldn't normally ask other authors where I'm just doing one, two hour session with them. Yeah, I think that's one thing that we underestimated is just how long it takes to read out loud an average size book, especially when you do want to re-clarify or restate pages or there are fluffs, let's face it. I have a blooper roll that would make you laugh. Well, maybe I'll have to put it out there and see if it makes people laugh. But all of that takes time and it takes patience and all of us have to be all in to want to do it. I'm curious, in terms of your career, I mean, you know from listening now to You, Me, We and Cultivate that relationships are at the heart of the work we do here at Sky Team. So what role have relationships and professional relationships specifically played in your success? So I think for me, it's just honestly in these recording sessions with the authors recording their books, I get to learn a lot every day. And it's so funny that I've been with Twin Flames for about four years now and counting. And before I ever started working for them, I just had a random conversation with my wife once where I said, you know, I'm not spending a lot of time reading. I probably should. And I can tell you on one hand how many books I'd read for years. Big old goose egg. Yep. And so taking this job at Twin Flames where I started out as a director completely changed that. I mean, I was now reading dozens of books a year now because going through the sessions, you know, we finish hours and hours and hours of books every year. And, you know, thirty plus books a year later can say, yeah, I'm reading a lot now. And so but in within those sessions, though, I get so much time with Brilliant people. And that's the one thing that one of the things that I enjoy most about my job is I'm never the smartest person in the room virtually or otherwise, right? I'm always learning something. And so I get to, that helps me stay engaged as well because there's a lot happening out in the corporate space that I would not otherwise be aware of. My wife has her own work stories and her leadership roles that she has within the organization she's been in that, that understanding piece of, you know, why is she having to do things that way? You know, so it helps me, become a more well-rounded person, both professionally, relationally, you know, personally, all of that. And so I bring all of that every time I come into a session now with everything that's come before me. So curiosity by the sound of things. And even listening to you there, I hadn't really thought through the fact that you listened to the live recording, but there's also the editing hours of re-listening to everything that goes on behind the scenes. So you're not just listening or reading the book once, you're reading it two or three times throughout the process. So your goose egg of zero has now gone to the end of the number. Absolutely, yes. So what's one thing you do thoughtfully and intentionally to nurture the relationships that you're making with authors, but also within the industry and for your own career? I think it's just really being intentional about the time that I have, not just within the recording sessions, which helps tremendously, right? Because we're engaged one-on-one, there's no other distractions available unless you forget to turn your phone off, right? So that one-on-one time where I just say, you know, we'll get to have a laugh in the middle of a recording session about, you know, what was said or, you know, what happened right before coming into the doorway or, you know, So for me, it's just the one-on-one relationships that I get to build with the authors. And then we can continue on via email or just general follow-ups. Hey, how have you been? And then at that point, it starts there in that role, but then I'll follow them on social media and like their posts or comment or You know, something along that line. So it starts very small and then just sort of grows. And for me, that's very fulfilling from that standpoint. I love it. Very pragmatic. Where can people who are listening to this conversation learn more about your work and the work of Twin Flame Studios? Sure. So our website is the first place to start. Twin Flames with an S on the end. Studios with an S on the end dot com. Also on LinkedIn, Instagram, Instagram's at Twin Flame Studios. And for me, I'm at Steven George VO. I don't post as much on Instagram anymore as I used to, but you'll still find occasional things there. And LinkedIn is really kind of where we spend our time. And because that's where our authors are. We are in the nonfiction space for the most part. And that's where our authors are as well, trying to build their brand, so to speak. Wonderful. Well, I'll make sure all of that information is included in the show notes. Stephen, it has been a pleasure both talking with and listening with you. Thank you for joining me on People First. Thank you, Morag. I appreciate it.