People First! with Morag Barrett

Welcome to this week's episode of People First. And my guest this week is Elena Love. Elena is the CEO of Purpose Linked Consulting and a sought after expert who coaches leaders and their teams on defining their purpose and using their passions to build healthy, productive workplaces and flourish in daily life. She is the co-author of the bestselling book, The Purpose-Linked Organization, and was formerly a research scientist and executive director of global human resources at Merck & Co. She's a graduate of the University of Michigan's Change Leadership Program. She studied medicine at Tufts University School of Medicine and holds a degree in medical technology from Monmouth University. I'm also proud to call her a friend and colleague through the One Hundred Coaches community. But I'm really excited to talk to her about her newest book, Permission to be You, which I read. Well, I read it before and I reread it this morning. Hence all of the little pinky tags in here. And I can't wait to share the insights with all of you this week. So Elena, firstly, welcome back to People First. Thank you. It's a delight to be with you again. I am so looking forward to our conversation. So as I said, I reread Permission to Be You today. I'll be putting a review on Amazon. And to everybody listening and watching, please write reviews wherever you purchase your book. It does help. But I know this book... was ten years in the making. Ten years. So what role did relationships play in helping you to get over that finish line and bring the book to the world? Well, I've been very blessed with relationships that have just shown up at the right time for me. And the book was ten years in the making because I started it, i was writing writing writing and i looked at what i wrote and i thought to myself this is not the book i'm supposed to be writing so i walked away from it and i was having a conversation with some friends of ours from one hundred coaches that were part of a connects group that i was in and i've talked about the fact that i had started this book and they asked me well what is it all about what do you want to write about and i started describing what i wanted to write about and they said we think you need to go back to that And I said, well, it's not a strict business book. It's really a book about life and it's a book that applies to everyone, whether they're in a leadership role or not. And I don't know how well that will be received because I've been writing about leadership all of these years. And they looked at me and said, you have our permission to write the book you want to write. I went back at it with a lot of support by Howard Morgan. Who's a friend of mine through a hundred coaches. Alex Lazarus, who's in the UK, and my husband. And I just went back to it. And I thought I'm going to just dive in. And I'm going to write the book I want to write. And it was a scary, wild ride. But I'm on the other side of it. And the book is the product. And it is fabulous. It's interesting. You said there that the Connect Group gave you explicit permission to write the book that you wanted. So how does that connect to the title, if at all? I mean, did you have the title in mind at the time? The title came to me almost twenty years ago. I was standing in my kitchen preparing dinner. at the butcher block table where all good ideas happen. And I was thinking about what should be the title of my book. And this was when I was writing the first book. And this title came to me then, Permission to be You. And I held that title for all of this time. And believe me, we workshopped that title every which way from Sunday when we were producing this book and got a lot of pushback. How about this one? How about that title? How about another title? But we landed here because it felt the most true to what the book was going to contain. And then the last chapter of the book is about permission. And that really came to me because I thought about the fact that I needed to give myself permission to write the book I wanted to write, but there were so many permissions each of us need to give ourselves in order to take the first big leap, the first big step in our lives that we need to take. So I posit in the last chapter, ten permissions you might need to give yourself based on what I've seen in other people. But your ten permissions could be different from mine, could be different from your sister's, could be different from your brother's. The important thing is to examine those and figure out what do I need to give myself permission to do so I can live a life in which I flourish. I see a whole series ahead of you, by the way. It just popped into my mind. But in permission to you, to be you then, I know the punchline because I've read it. But for those who are listening and going, OK, so I've got the title. It wasn't originally the book you wanted to write. It now is. What are they going to discover when they turn the pages and go on this journey with you? Well, they'll discover that they're on a journey, number one, and that they have a travel companion. And the book is that travel companion that will lead them to a deeper understanding of their purpose and their passions. and give them greater insight into how they use those passions and their purpose to navigate some of the pivotal moments of their life. Whether it's navigating a crisis, forming a romantic relationship, parenting a child, building a career, or even overcoming a loss, our passions and our purpose play a role in how well we do that. And the deeper we understand ourselves, the better we handle those situations. So that's what the book is intended to do. And it's interesting because you talk about your first book or one of your other books, The Purpose-Linked Organization, which is all about thinking group-wide, the values, the passions, what makes this organization special, but in permission to be you, you're drilling down to us as individual human beings. And what I took from it was the reinforcement of the permission to be the you in the one life that we have versus the following the script or the obligations that others may put on us. That's absolutely right. And it was really born of my own experience. I did it myself. I spent a lot of my life leading the life that I thought other people prescribed for me, wanted for me, that this was the right way to go. I watched it with my clients over and over again. And at some point in our lives, we have to break free of that. who are we? How do we want to show up? What's our unique gift that we want to give to the world? And what's the life we're meant to live? And it's only with making that decision that you're going to do that, that you can really be you. You can't be you trying to deliver on somebody else's promise for you. So it was a tough challenge to try to figure out how to translate that message in a way that was helpful for folks. What I mostly want to do with this book is give them guidance, ideas, but I can no more prescribe for you what your life should be. than anybody else can prescribe for you what your life should be. It should be a discovery journey. And that's what the book is meant to be. There's lots of tools for people to use associated with the book. Every chapter has a set of reflection questions at the end of it that really challenges you to think about, what did I take away from this? And how does it specifically reflect my life, my journey, my challenges, the things that I wanna do? So the reader's invited to explore that. and continue to explore it as they read every section of the book. Yeah, I think that's what I enjoyed. Not the most, but that's what I really enjoyed in terms of the writing style was A, it's accessible. But as I was reading through the stories, either from your life or from the leaders that you've coached and worked with, I was able to go, ooh, Me too. I recognize that truth or that grain of truth in the journey that I've been on. And so to your point, it doesn't prescribe, but it provides options. And I think it also reinforces it's never too late. Absolutely. because I certainly know from my own life, there's that whole, you know, I've been on this road now for twenty years, thirty years, forty years, actually a few more than that even, but whichever of the life pivot points that I've wrestled with, I know that it is easy for me to fall back on, well, you've made your bed, lie in it, you know, too late now, what are you going to do? But once the decision has been made, either to stick on the path, in which case go all in or change the path. Looking back, it's like, why didn't I make that decision either way, red pill, blue pill sooner? Absolutely. And I had the same experience, whether I was talking about a marriage I was in or challenges I've had as a parent or the loss of someone that I love deeply to illness. All of those experiences taught me that I've got one shot at this. that I know. I mean, I hope we have many lives. But this is the only one I remember, the one I'm reading right now. And I'm going to try to make the most of it and try to leave the brightest, most complimentary, most abundant mark on the world that I can by being who I am. So I kind of look at the book and everything I put in it akin to a pebble being thrown into a pond. And I hope the ripples touched lots and lots of people and help lots and lots of people. Well, if I've got anything to do with it here on People First, it will. I'm curious though, I mean, even from the opening pages and you talk about the loss of your sister and of your mom, those are big things. And so as you revisited those moments from your life, how did it further change or impact you? I think in part, one of the reasons why this book was so hard for me to write was because I knew that I couldn't write it without sharing those stories because they were, and I know that I'm not the only one who's had those experiences. So sharing them for me became a testament to other people who had similar kinds of experiences and had weathered them somehow, gotten onto the other side of them. And I knew to write about them I had to revisit them in order to really capture them well. And I knew that that meant being willing to go back into the pain of those. And some of the stories I wrote about were happy stories. And I went back into the happiness of them, the story I share with my son in church, that prime example. But for the stories where there was pain or loss, by writing about it and experiencing it again, I almost got to see it from a different vantage point. I almost got to extract myself from the situation and become a viewer of this play going on on the stage in which I was playing a starring role and look at that person and think, hmm, interesting that she reacted that way. What was she thinking at that time? what would have been helpful to her to know that would have helped her navigate that time differently, that would have given her a better insight into who she was becoming as a result of this experience. And that was a pretty amazing opportunity. And I really do look at it as an opportunity to actually experience yourself by stepping out of yourself and watching what you did and why you did it and examining it. It also helped me to examine some of the things I was still carrying pain about and heal it. Because I could see where that pain came from. I could forgive myself for things that I thought I should have been capable of doing that were impossible for me to do. You can't save somebody when it's their time to go, for example. But I carried a lot of guilt around about that, especially with my mom. But I finally learned that that wasn't my role. That wasn't what I was meant to do. And I could make peace with that. So there was a real value in that for me as well in writing the book. You talk about ten archetypes. Ten archetypes to describe our passion, what drives us. So I'm curious. I mean, you talk about you are a healer. Mm-hmm. But it's also about identifying your top three. Top three, yes. So I'm curious as to what your other two are. But also let's give a little teaser for those who are listening as to what these archetypes are that you've identified and why they matter. Well, there are ten passion archetypes that we all carry within us to greater or lesser degrees. The real advantage is in understanding what your top three passions are, because if you do, you'll tend to have a better idea of how you'll respond to certain situations, what strengths you're likely to show, what vulnerabilities you might be more subject to. And you'll also have a better understanding of the environments in which you're likely to thrive and those in which you won't. So I'll just give you a quick recap of the passions The tenor creator, which is the passion archetype of the artist, people who like taking ideas that they have in mind and translating them into artistic experiences or expressions that touch others emotionally. There's the conceiver. These are the folks who have, I call them intellectual acrobats. They have the most incredible brains and the way their minds work. is amazing. A little bit like watching a squash game where the ball is bouncing off all these different walls and they're coming up with this idea and then this one and this one and that one. So they're great ideators and strategic thinkers. There's the discoverer. Those are the individuals who know the answers out there somewhere and they're going to lift up enough rocks until they find it. And they tend to be much more devoted to validating information. So they won't take things at face value. They'll look for proof and evidence that this has worked before. Processors are the analytical folks among us. They like data and information. And if it's chaotic, they like putting everything in a swim lane. Let's in the place it's supposed to be. The next is the teacher archetype, which sounds exactly like you think. who love sharing knowledge. They love mentoring and helping others grow and develop. But interestingly, they also love learning. So for a teacher, the exciting part is when they share something with you and you have an idea about that and you reflect it back to them. And then there's this feedback loop going on where they're teaching, they're learning, they're teaching, they're learning, they're teaching, they're learning. And for them, that's like being a kid in a candy shop. The next archetype is the archetype of the connector. These are individuals who love connecting people and ideas with one another. They're also great negotiators because they can see both sides of an issue. They can see your perspective and mine and figure out how to bring them together. Next is the altruist. That's the archetype of caring and heart that deeply cares about the impact they're having on the larger world and making a bigger difference. The healer cares about individuals on a one by one basis. Are you in pain? Are you, are you having difficulty? How can I help you through that to get to a better place? Then there's the transformer. These are the change agents of the world. If it's crazy and chaotic, they want to be right in the middle of it. And we're sure that out of this chaos, there's some new order that's going to emerge and they want to be part of creating that new order. So for transformers, things have to be new and different and they are not eating pizza every Wednesday night. It needs to be different. And then finally, the builder archetype is the archetype that loves big, hairy, audacious goals. And they especially love things that nobody else has accomplished. And they have a vision for how they're going to do it. And for them, it's about getting it done. In fact, most people that I hear talked about who are builders, the general phrase I will hear is this person gets stuff done. They're very oriented. So those are the ten. All of us have... three of them as a primary expression in our personalities. Mine happened to be builder, transformer, and healer. Okay. And as you work with your archetypes, as you learn about them, as you read this book, you'll develop a deeper sense of, am I leading with one versus the other? Is one in really the director's seat and the others are the actors on the stage? Is one driving the bus or others directing the traffic? And for me, Healer's really in the lead for me. And I'd say a close second would be transformer. And builder is how I get the stuff done. That's how I get the transformation and the healing to happen by the things I build to make that a reality. And do they change seats? So can the builder become the driving seat or is it? It's a great question. That's a really good question, because what happens is based on our research, we found that you tend to keep your same three archetypes as you're as you're the ones occurring in your top three cluster and shift positions. So if I'm in a situation that's really calling my builder forward, it could be likely that that could show up as the driver for me that particular day. Or it might be that I'm in a situation where I'm navigating a lot of change and transformer is stepping forward. And that's sort of the primary aspect of my personality that I'm delivering on that particular day. So yes, it's true that within that top three, they can shift position, but you tend to carry your top three your whole life. And compared to other profiles, tools that are designed to help us understand ourself, does not having, obviously the other seven in our top three, does not having, whichever comes in number ten, does that mean I'm... Failing less than, oops, there's a risk by not having it, or is it just? What I love about this tool is there's nothing about yourself you have to fix. There you go. Love it. Yay. You are. Your passions are your passions. Your eye color is your eye color. I've had people do that. People that I've worked with on teams have said, well, nobody else on the team has discovered. And I kind of have that as my fifth one. Should I be the discoverer for the team? It's like, no, that's like saying my eyes are brown. Can you change them to blue? I can put lenses on. But when I take the lenses out, you're still going to be brown eyed. So it suggests that understanding what your top three are empowers you, empowers you to know here are the strengths I have. Yes. Here are the vulnerabilities I might be a little more subject to if this particular situation happens. I just have to sort of watch out for that. Here are the environments in which I'm going to be likely to thrive. So I want to gravitate towards those environments and avoid the ones where I'm not going to thrive. And if a lot has to get done and I don't have all of the passions for all of the things that need to get done, I can invite other people who do, have different passions in mind and together, We can make more happen than we can alone. So it's understanding that. It's personal and a little bit of situational because certainly as I was thinking about my own, glad to know there's nothing to be fixed. This is perfection. Absolutely. I could have told you that. This version of Morag, this is the best you're getting today anyway. You rock. There you go. We both rock. But it was that whole, I was thinking about it, especially as I went through the six chapters, because to your point, there is so much you could write about, but you chose six life milestones that many of us have either lived through, i.e. parenting, either as the child and or as the parent, we've all gone through that journey. And some of us have gone through the grief and loss of whether it's a friend, a child, a parent, or will unfortunately face that. And so what I could see is you were narrating each of those because I heard your voice in it, that for me... for example, I think builder is one of mine. I've yet to take the self-assessment, but builder and conceiver are in my top three, but it depends on what I'm building. And when it's the right thing, I will be up till midnight and I will get that thing done. And it's going to be dot the I's cross the T's amazing. Cause I can see it in my head and I can't wait to let it go. Yes. But if it's something else that, yeah, whatever, maybe because it's somebody else's vision and, It can be harder to lean in. It's a very important observation you just made. As a builder, you want it to be your vision. Your vision, if it's your dream, if you can see it in technicolor, then you're going to go after it. You're going to lean into it. And you're going to have the energy to do the work you need to do to make it happen. Less so when it's somebody else's dream. And what you have just reminded me of is why my team, my co-authors, my business partners both love and loathe working with me at the same time. Because they love the ideas. That's what they tell me. But in that moment, I also saw just because I'm working till midnight because I'm passionate about my vision, it's getting everybody else to understand why now when it comes to the work stuff versus it's just because Morag said. And so self-awareness about what drives me does not still preclude me from understanding the ripple effects that that's going to have for the decisions I'm making and the people in my life. That's absolutely critical because they are where they are based on their passions as well. And one of the biggest challenges somebody in a leadership position with a builder archetype has is is translating your vision in a way that allows other people to see a place for themselves in it. And see a place for themselves in it, they can own that space and they can lean into it and be excited about it. And they may approach it differently than you do. They may not stay up till midnight to work on it, but they're gonna work on it in a different way and lean into it in a way that makes sense for them and that gives them pleasure. And because ultimately all of us, whenever we're working on something, we want to be working on it from a place of flow where time is just flying by. We don't even know it. We're so into what we're doing. And the more you understand what your passions are, the more you can find that route to that place of flow through your passions, because you now have a roadmap. What did you discover about yourself? in this writing process as you continue to explore these concepts that have been on a slow boil for ten years. You put pen to paper, finger to laptop keys. What did you discover about yourself through that process? That I had a lot more courage than I thought, number one, because the process of writing this book and reliving the experiences that I had to relive, required a lot of courage to embark upon. I also learned that there was more complexity to me than even I knew before. I always never thought I was a simple person by any stretch of the imagination, but the complexities that I've developed over the years through the various experiences that I've had have let me see sides to myself I didn't know existed. Or maybe I wasn't as aware that those sides of me existed as I did after the writing. And I think it reinforced for me these passions that I have. And it reinforced for me that there's more than one way to express them. And writing the book was an expression of all of those passions, the transformer passion, the builder passion, the healer passion. I'm hoping that people find the experience of reading this book and the experience of taking whatever journey they want to take with the material. And it's truly their choice, whatever journey they want to take. I hope they find it healing. I hope they find it transformative. And I hope they also find ways to build a better life going forward. through the experience of the work they do with the material in the book. That's really my desire. So I discovered that there was, that it was possible to actually create something where that could happen. And that's pretty exciting. It is exciting and powerful way. So you talk there about how we can discover this. How can people learn more about the work that you do with organizations, teams and as an executive coach? Well, the easy way to do that is to go to the purpose link dot com. That is my corporate Web site. If you want to find out more about the book, you can go to permission to be you book dot com. And I will point out there for individuals who really want to do a deeper dive into the material that's in this book and learn more about themselves through it, there is a toolkit available on permissiontobubook.com that has a host of materials that I've put there. They're free to the reader to help them understand how they want to explore self-assessment to help them do planning work, to help them do reflective work. It's all there for them and available. My corporate work, I love, and I am blessed to have some excellent clients that I coach and excellent teams that I do work with. And again, as I said, that's available to folks through thepurposelink.com. I'll make sure all of that information is included in the show notes. And in case you didn't get a glimpse on it, of course, if you're listening, you're not going to see it either. But it's a beautiful little book. Permission to Be You by Elena Love. Get it. Either physical copy, e-book or audio. You will not be disappointed. Elena, thank you for joining me again on People First. And congratulations on the birth of your latest book. Thank you, Maura. I appreciate it so much. Thank you for being such a good friend and such a wonderful host. All right, now.