- [INTRO] Welcome to SkyeTeam's People First with Morag Barrett.

- My friend and colleague Shannon Sisler is a business-minded progressive SVP, and Chief People Officer at Crocs. She has a successful track record building, directing, and transforming human resources practices that enable high level success for global corporations. She's been recognized, well-deserved might I say, with the 2020 Denver Business Journal's C-Suite Awards, the University of Denver 2019 Steward Award, and by the Colorado Diversity Council as one of the 2015 Most Powerful and Influential Women. She enjoys global travel, or did before COVID, personally and professionally having visited more than 70 countries. And spending time with her family here in the Colorado mountains. Shannon, welcome to People First.

- Well, thank you for having me Morag. I'm excited to be here.

- I have been so looking forward to this conversation and it's ironic that the podcast is a great excuse for me to reconnect with friends and colleagues from across the years. But I'm going to start as I do every episode, with your origin story. Because leadership journeys are rarely the straight line that people assume. They have windy, windy turns. So when you go back to elementary school and the teacher's asking you, "What do you want to be when you grow up Shannon?" What was your answer way back then?

- Yeah, way back then. I actually had two answers. It's hard to remember, I had two answers. One, was I wanted to be a race car driver. I wanted to drive a hot pink drag racer like Shirley Muldowney, and drive a dragster which I still unfortunately drive a little fast. And the other option was I either wanted to be a teacher, but actually more of a principal. And I used to play school a lot as a little kid. And I think ironically I might've ended up as a principal, but for corporations.

- Well, yes, kind of. It's interesting, I didn't know we had that in common 'cause one of my fantasy jobs earlier in my life was as a rally driver. And I spent a day actually at Silverstone racetrack learning to do that, absolutely terrifying. Talk about having high trust with your navigator that, do 80 miles an hour, hard right, turn left. Crazy, crazy. All right, so principal maybe for corporate but what was the pivot turn? 'Cause I know early in your career you were a consultant, and now you excel in the human resources and the people side of business. So what was it that took you from principal and or racing car driver?

- Yeah, so I actually graduated, undergrad degree with a degree in finance and I started out with Andersen Consulting, or now Accenture, and I started in their process group. And that meant that I had to learn to program which anyone that knows me would be a little frightened that I was actually doing C, C++, and COBOL as my first job. But I remember going to them and saying, "While I can do programming, "it's not necessarily one of my biggest interests. "Is there any way that I could teach the class "instead of be an actual programmer?" And they said, "Well, yeah, you can teach the class, "we would feel comfortable with that." And then that's actually what led me into their business process outsourcing division. And I then started doing kind of deals between Accenture and clients, where we transitioned people. And so my first five years I was doing kind of people related HR activities, but I was client facing in a consulting role. So I kind of just tiptoed my way in. I don't think I intentionally landed in this field, but that's probably I think something you'll see in my entire journey.

- Seize the opportunity as it's presented.

- Yeah, seize the opportunity, yes.

- So what's kept you here then? You may not have gone looking for it, but now there's a certain track record that says you're thriving in the people side of successful businesses in different industries. So what's keeping you, and peaking your curiosity about the human side of successful organizations?

- That's a great question. And I think it's one that has evolved over time. I consider myself a business person that happens to do people focused work, not the other way around. So I'm very focused on the top and bottom line, and how we deliver results. But I have a real interest in how people contribute to that. And I really do believe that when you have an engaged workforce you can deliver the best results. And that to me, I've seen over and over again, when they're engaged, they deliver amazing. When you see a workforce that's not feeling good about their work environment, or the value proposition you're giving them, I do see that it detracts from the overall business results. So it's been a great learning journey over time.

- It's interesting you mentioned their engagement and how that makes a difference. And I know Gallup, who I've also been tracking engagement with their Gallup 12 Questions for many years. So how have you seen that conversation around engagement and people change throughout your career?

- I think it has changed a lot which I'm super excited about. We actually use Glint as our survey measurement tool and it really is how we listen to people over time. And I would say, gone are the days of just doing an annual engagement survey to see how people are doing. And we actually choose to listen to our employees on a regular basis to hear how things are going. But I think the thing that I'm most excited about with regard to the engagement discussion is it's no longer an HR tool, or process, or practice. I think that if I were to go out and ask our business leaders they would tell you they own engagement, and HR supports and enables them to take some good corrective actions and make sure we're listening well, and we give them the tools and resources. But it really is a business activity, it's not an HR activity. And I think that is a key to success. And at Crocs we have top decile engagement, we've had that for a couple of years. And you can really see that driving the results.

- It is amazing 'cause when I think about Crocs and the complexity of your business, a global business, global supply chain, global distribution. You have manufacturing, you have research and design, you have the full gamut of employee experience there. And if there's one thing I noticed in 2020 it seemed to me that from the get go Crocs responded to the pandemic and hit the ground running. And I realize that it's not quite as easy as that. So help me understand what was happening behind the scenes at the leadership team level as 2020 and Q1 was unfolding.

- Well we got an early preview to what 2020 was going to look like. Because just like you said, we start with manufacturing and a lot of that's done out of Asia. So we started to see the impacts of the pandemic quite early. And I think that really enabled us as a leadership team to come together, and we put together a pretty comprehensive offensive and defensive plan. And I think it's important to do both. One of the things I've noticed is that a lot of companies went into defensive mode only to protect and secure their business. And while that's incredibly important and we did the same thing, I think it's also really important to say offensively, how can we look at this moment in time as an opportunity to take the organization to the next level, deliver differentiated results. And that led us to some of the activities that we did. I think the other piece that I would just give you is it was a very action oriented leadership team. So we were on calls daily saying, what's our plan? How are we making progress? And we made very quick decisions which ultimately really helped us thrive during a difficult time.

- So how do you get senior leaders to make quick decisions in an environment that was literally changing minute by minute?

- Yeah, I think you get them on the phone, the virtual phone at this point, and you just say, "Okay, these are the things that we have to tackle. "These are the decisions that have to be made. "By tomorrow, come back to me with a recommendation." But I think in order to do that, you have to say, "I'm not going to hold you "to this decision being a hundred percent perfect." That's not realistic in this moment in time. What is realistic is to be action oriented, to think about the risks of what you're doing, and the upsides and balance. And if we get some stuff wrong, which we inevitably will. we'll iterate and we'll change as we go, but we have to take decisive action now. And having a conversation about that. I think there are a lot of people that were nervous about having that conversation, and making decisions, and they wanted to see how it played out. And we took a very different approach.

- So to what extent did your time horizon change? Were you planning for the medium longer term from the get go or were you like the rest of us hoping that this will be done by summer? But as it became apparent that that was not the case, then you adjust the time horizon. How did that work out?

- I think because of our global mandate we knew this was not going to be a short-term thing. So we did a lot of scenario planning, kind of worst case, normal case, best case, and put all those plans into place. And they had at least a year horizon. As a global public company, we need to do what's in the best interest for our shareholders. And so that means doing especially financial scenario planning that's going to have longer term implications.

- And so tell me about the engagement data then from Glint, 'cause you're continually serving employees and of course they're all going through their individual reactions and change curve as this information comes to light. So what did you learn about engagement, employee morale, job satisfaction, et cetera during this period?

- Yeah, I think this has been one of my highlights for 2020 is this learning. And what I learned was we were super fortunate that we went into the pandemic with top decile engagement. And I remember when we were doing that offensive defensive strategy, Andrew Rees, our CEO, I had set goals for what engagement would look like for '20. And I said, "I think looking at some of the actions "that we're going to have to take "I'm not sure what this is going to do to engagement. "It could be a bumpy ride this year." And he looked at me straight in the camera and he's like, "I expect engagement to stay where it's at, "and that's your goal." And I was like, okay, well that's my goal. And you know what I learned was that all those books and case studies that I've looked at that say, if you have an engaged workforce they give discretionary effort, and that drives better business results. I got to see how that really works in a really difficult time. And I've been so impressed with how our workforce has come together and they have given more discretionary effort than I could possibly imagine during this time. I mean, people, we did furloughs, we did part-time hours, we did pay cuts, and everyone stuck with us. And our engagement actually ticked up a point in the pandemic versus went down. But I also think we made a commitment as an organization to be extremely transparent, and we increased communication regularly. There was a time period that Andrew, our CEO, and other leaders, we were doing town halls every single week globally to tell everyone what was going on week by week to give them the play by play. And I think that transparent communication is part of what yielded good sentiment throughout the entire pandemic. So, what I found is that all those case studies that if you really are engaged, you will see differentiated results, and we're fortunate that we've seen that

- Engagement is contagious. I love the success story, absolutely. And it comes back to your point of the leadership team. You obviously had a foundation of trust, of candor, and debate. One where we could take informed risks, make quick decisions, and not get beaten over their head if new information or that decision needs to change. But it's the best right decision here and now. And then the transparency as you've just described with employees to communicate the why and the what, that comes from that. So as you look across the globe in the Crocs family, are there some stories and anecdotes that stand out for you that really epitomize that discretionary effort that you were talking about a minute ago?

- Yeah, there's probably a couple. The first one that I would point to is we decided very early on in the pandemic, during the March timeframe, that we were going to do share pair with healthcare. And so we literally gave away a retail value of $40 million of shoes, 860,000 pairs in 45 days. And that was an idea that from start of the idea to actual communication and execution, took us a week to announce and implement that activity. And so we went to market very quickly and said, this is a time where our consumers need us and we can provide comfort in a very difficult time, and we're going to do the right thing and give these shoes away. And I will tell you that that brought so much pride to our workforce that we were able to go out there, around the globe, it wasn't just a North America thing, and provide comfort to the people that were on the front lines. And when I look at what that takes. So it's a nice headline, but when you think about the effort that had to go into that. First we had to find the shoes that were available to give away in our supply chain. And then we had to have our digital commerce team figure out a way online to let people come every day and say, hey I want to get a free pair. And they waited in line at a certain time each day to get their name there. And that we had a way to tangibly give those away. And then we had to have all of our workers in the distribution center who kept working during the pandemic, actually ship those shoes from all over the world to get to that frontline worker. And then all the marketing and messaging that went with that. And so when you think about the group effort that it took, and the fact that we were able to pivot in a week to make that happen, and it really did impact many, many people's lives. And it might sound like a small thing, but it's not if you're standing on your feet for 14 hours a day, and comfort is going to give you joy in a very hard time. So that's a great example of just a workforce that stayed so engaged through a difficult situation.

- It's the ripple effect, 'cause as you say it's the story about how within Crocs, the family rallied together, it's the ripple effect for those healthcare workers who now can stand more comfortably, but it's the ripple effects for people like me who are connected to the brand, who would see the social media posts and see this as a silver lining that's coming out of what could feel like a very depressing time. So as you look now where we're at and we're planning into 2021, how has this influenced the people strategy, and the sense of team within Crocs?

- Well I think this pandemic has taught us internally that we're stronger than we thought, you know? And that's actually been really good because one of our values is being confidently comfortable. And that confidence is really important for an organization to feel. Crocs has had a hard journey. They've had really amazing years, difficult years, and the last few years we've been on the rise. But when difficult times come at you, you have to look in the mirror and say can we do this? Do you think we have what we need to get this done? And I think it's been a nice boost of confidence for everyone to see that we can come together, we can perform during difficult times. And that action orientation is something that I look forward to taking into '21 and beyond, because if we can keep those behaviors going, and keep that innovative thinking where everyone's working together, we will continue to see differentiated results and people take a lot of pride in that.

- Mhm, so you mentioned the town halls earlier on, you mentioned that sense of contribution to something bigger. One of the things that the leaders and companies I'm working with are struggling with is we used to have a mothership, corporate HQ, whatever, that's where culture, that's where values, et cetera, kind of lived and breathed. And yet now in a distributed workforce, I'm an organization with 5,000 HQ's because everybody's working out of their bedroom. And so the conversation around organizational culture and how do you nurture it? Do you even need it? But how do you create a sense of team? When all I know is I'm working in these same four walls, I'm working on my own. So what are you seeing that's helping in the different environments that you have. You've got essential workers coming in, doing manufacturing. As your corporate office staff who've been working at home, but now doing a hybrid situation. How do you maintain that sense of connection to what makes Crocs special?

- Well, we think that's incredibly important. And even if we do have 5,000 mini HQs, we do think that creating culture's really important. And so, it looks different for our different workforces to your point. So in the distribution centers where those frontline workers are the ones making sure the shoes get in the stores, or get in your hands, it has been day to day how do we find ways to reward and recognize what they're doing, and things to keep them safe in the work environment. And then in the retail stores, we've furloughed our retail staff, and then brought them back over time. And we've done lots of, we just did a special incentive for them to say thank you for their contribution over the last quarter, that was kind of an unexpected surprise and delight. Which I think really was our way of saying thank you, 'cause they came to the table and are just doing really well engaging with our customers, and lines throughout their doors, and yet they're finding a way to get through that. And then, for our corporate work staff where a lot of them are working from home, although most of our corporate offices are open if you want to come in, and we've got a lot of safety standards around that. We have really talked with leaders, and leaders have talked to their teams about how do we maintain culture? And maintaining culture for us is, we still do town halls regularly. We still do what we call 1200 seconds every couple of weeks. We still have team meetings, we have stand ups. You might be standing up in your bedroom on your desk, but you're standing up, having that meeting. And so each group has come together to say these are our team norms, even though our whole world has changed. And so I think actively talking about what's the culture we want to create given the current circumstances, for each different workforce is super important and not something I just want to brush over. It's actually more important now that we've got such different circumstances.

- And I think that's the power of the Glint survey in that it's continuous feedback from different parts of the world on the business, versus to your point, the once a year annual snapshot that could cause you to miss hotspots, and be unable to respond in a timely fashion. So I'm curious, how has your own leadership philosophy and leadership style adjusted to this crucible that we've gone through?

- Well, I think it's reinforced a lot of the things that I believed for a long time. That an action orientation is really important. Transparent communication is important. Engagement really does yield better results. And so if anything, it's reinforced some of those. I think the other thing that it's had me really contemplate this year is, how do you provide more flexibility and empathy for people going through so many things personally and professionally, while still being business focused on the outcomes? And how do those live in harmony? And it might sound easy from the headline, but day to day when someone's saying, "I have kids at home and I have to do self study, "and yet I have business meetings I'm supposed to be in." How do you accommodate that, and yet still stay true to our shareholders and deliver a return? And so, I think I've spent a lot more time thinking about what that looks like. And we don't have all the answers, but I think it starts with having really meaningful conversations. Sometimes person by person, sometimes group by group, and then being flexible and saying, we're going to tell you what we know today, and if it changes in 30 days, we'll come back and have a different conversation. And also right now we haven't been able to give as long out answers as we would typically give, but we have committed to being transparent and very communicative, which I think is helping. So a little more iterations than I would typically see.

- My experience is that those companies that have been deliberate and thoughtful in having those conversations, recalibrating, what does it mean to be part of Crocs? What does business professional mean when I'm working in a 500 square foot apartment, and my toddler is running through, et cetera. Making the implicit explicit is what's made a huge difference versus no, we've got to be buttoned up, prim and proper, that isn't always feasible. So I love the fact that you've been driving that conversation and involving everybody one-on-one, and on the team basis for recalibrating what does it mean to be a successful organization and team in 2020?

- And I think Morag, one of our taglines is come as you are. And that's been with us for many years now, but it's really shown up in different ways for employees this year. Come as you are, to your point, is that toddler running behind the scenes when you're on a video call. And we have had to get more glimpses of people's personal and professional lives as they come together. And yet I think having an inclusive culture where you really can show up as a unique individual, it truly can be a differentiator and something that we're even leaning into more.

- So as you look to the future, what's one thing you hope that we all collectively take away from this experience?

- I've been hoping this for a long time, but I believe that you show up not only as a worker, but as a human being. And I've always thought that it's important to blend personal and professional in an appropriate way. I don't need to know all of your personal business. But a person that shows up that has, really whether it's medical challenges, or family challenges, or school challenges to work they don't just leave that at the door. And I hope that if anything this year has taught us that we're people first. And we have to find who those people are and how to support them. And if you can find the right way to support them, while also professionally motivating and engaging them, then we really can strive to get the desired outcomes that we're looking for. So I'm hoping that we continue to have a little bit of that blurred line between personal and professional in an appropriate way.

- I love it. And Shannon, as we come towards the end of our time together what final thoughts do you have around how to create and maintain a highly engaged workforce?

- I think it starts with communication. You got to say things over and over again. You got to talk with people individually. You need to have two way communication, and really listen to how people are feeling, and respond. And take visible demonstrated actions to really respond to what they're wanting and needing at that time. And then, recognize the contribution that people are making. That recognition, whether it's for something small or big can just make such a difference. And that's something I hope that we sustain in the years to come.

- Well Shannon, I want to recognize you for being a guiding light and an inspiration. How can people listening just stay in touch and connected with your thoughts and philosophy, but also learn more about what's happening at Crocs?

- Yeah, absolutely. Well, Crocs as a whole is very active on all the social media channels. So you can find us on Facebook, and Instagram, and all over the world. I'm also on Facebook, and LinkedIn is a really good way to get in touch with me. So people, feel free to drop me a note and we're happy to get back with you or someone on my team will. And we hope that everyone can come as you are as we move forward, so I look forward to connecting with people.

- Thanks, Shannon.

- Thank you.

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