[Music] welcome to Sky teams people first with Morag Barrett welcome to this week's episode of people first where I'm excited to introduce you to my friend and colleague Charlene Willis Charlene is the author of The groundbreaking book you are enough and more on why I think it's groundbreaking in just a moment but a little snippet of Charlene's background she is a successful business executive she is a leadership coach and advisor keynote speaker and author she has just done her second tedx talk and brings more than three decades of experience in leadership corporate Affairs Communications and operations she works with leaders Executives and teams to inspire and motivate others for breakthrough performance and to transform and strengthen their workplace culture Charlene welcome to people first ah thank you Mariah it's a pleasure to be with you this morning uh well I'm going to get to my opening question in a moment but I want to clarify I described your book you are enough as it's groundbreaking and it was for me because you know it's going to be a doozy of a read or in my case a listen because I'm listening to the audiobook version when in chapter one I'm walking through my neighborhood and I literally go what and you think okay this is gonna be a good one and we'll come back to what made me go what in such a passionate outburst and it's not the only time that you and listening to you narrate the book has made me exclaim both with shock ore and horror at some cases but let's start this conversation Charlene in my usual Pace your origin story so you're a wee girl you're at elementary school and the teacher's Charlene what do you want to be when you grow up what was your dream or your aspiration when you were a little girl well I wanted to be a bus driver a city bus driver thank you Goosebumps I'll tell you one a minute keep going yeah all right a bus driver so why did you want to be a bus driver well you know people say often that representation matters right I grew up in a part a suburb of uh of Oakland California which is uh really known for for drugs and crime and guns and so you know the only people I saw who had jobs that looked exciting to me were bus drivers and so I thought well that's all that's really available to me is being a bus driver so I thought well that's what I want to be uh later I would say um I I changed my viewpoint and I wanted to be a teacher an elementary school teacher because I had a third grade teacher named Miss Daisy who I just thought hung the moon so then I thought well I'm going to be a teacher okay and what topic did Miss Daisy teach then well she was my third grade teacher so she just taught everything but she's the one who introduced me to reading and that was uh reading changed my life okay well reading and words because I know you're an um executive in communication so what was the pivot point then you say there that reading changed your life tell me more about that yeah reading um opened the world to me you know um we were um you know we were not um we we were not even middle class when I was uh when I was growing up and so my world was very limited and although I saw different shows on television there weren't shows um of people who looked like me so even my imagination was limited until I learned to read and then all of a sudden as people say you know these whole new worlds of possibility open up to you and I also fell in love with words I mean I um have had my entire life from the time I can remember um I just have a love affair with words so essentially there's one thing to get lost in books and enjoy reading and having a love of words it's a different thing to then write a book and whilst we're often told oh everybody has a book in them not everybody has a book in them that they want to get out or that they should get out so what was the inspiration for you and your book you are enough gosh well so um as you know since you're reading the book you know I went through a pretty big Health crisis starting in 2017 and I was diagnosed with um with stage two breast cancer and it was actually the second time in six months that I had been diagnosed with cancer and so this time I had to pay attention the first time I kind of ignored it and to the extent that you can and um and my seven month treatment plan turned into a near five-year battle for my life so you know in the middle of that I had gone back to work at first taken time off then I went back to work and uh and I realized I wasn't getting any better I and in fact I started having you know really strange complications some you've read about in the book and I thought you know I need to make a change and so I decided to leave the corporate world in January of 2020 and I didn't know what I was going to do I wasn't leaving to go to something I was just leaving so that I could get better because I as stress is a killer I mean let's just put it that way it can really be a killer and so I didn't know what I was going to do and I am a religious person and so while I had cancer and was going through all of this I never asked why me you know why not me but I did ask what am I supposed to do with this with this cancer and after I left work I took about a month and I woke up one day Morag and um and I said oh my gosh I'm supposed to write a book and I'm supposed to write a book about cancer and then I thought no I'm supposed to write a book about what it's like being a black woman coming up in Corporate America and really just coming up in the world you know in I was born in 1964 and you know be coming up as a little black girl in the U.S in 1964 and then climbing the corporate ladder what was that like and one one thing I've always been blessed with is courage you know and there are a lot of people who tell the stories but they sugarcoat them they don't tell the whole story and you know God blessed me with the courage to tell the whole story and so um you know so I just really felt like it was my calling to write the book I did I didn't write it because um I wanted to be an author I wrote the book Because I had something to say and I felt there was something that people needed to hear uh and I would applaud that I think you have so deftly woven I mean there are so many strands and threads I want to pull on in terms of the work and the career and the bias and the Discrimination that you've experienced along with your personal Revelations and your health Journey so masterfully that as I say it's going to be a book that I know I'm going to go back and listen to several times because there is so much richness in there and even your early chapter where you lay it out this is me and you give us that ground role of ground basis of your early career and then you move on to chapter two which is all about quick whining get up there and do it so as you chose which stories went into or lived experiences I hate their first stories because it implies there's an element of fiction and these are lived experiences but when you chose what went into the book and what didn't what what did you find Most Fascinating about what you rediscovered about yourself gosh you know I started thinking about what were the areas that um had the biggest impact on me you know they're the things that happened to you that I call kind of our pivotal points right or pivotal moments in your life where you also have the opportunity to turn it around right because I didn't want the book to just be here is Charlene's sad story I wanted the book to be about here's a story of an overcomer and give people tools where they could also overcome right that maybe in reading the book people who are walking my journey the journeys is a bit shorter it's a bit lighter and maybe they're even able to avoid some of the uh the pitfalls or experiences that I had so I really tried to look at things that were that gave me lessons taught me lessons that I could turn into strategies for other others and that were that were meaningful that were meaningful and you know and I included the the as you know the book is very personal and I included a lot of the cancer piece and and into it because cancer became a very big part of my life um and a big part of of why I do something different now and I wanted people to understand that you can't compartmentalize your life right that we all try to do that when we go into the work world it's like well this is work Charlene this is home Charlene this is parent Charlene this is you know whichever and you know you just really can't compartmentalize your life and not and lead a full life as well and that was one of the ahas of similarities in our experiences because I mean even in the Green Room you were talking about questions I should ask you said you were an open book and I was thinking yes but not always and much like me I separated my home life with my work life and it was only in the last five to ten years that I've allowed both to blend and you make this point very clearly in the book that in doing so actually we become stronger and the people around us become more vested in helping to ensure our success so say more about your experience from going from the compartmentalized Parental Home work Charlene and all the other different hats you wore to being more of the open book that you described for me this morning sure yeah that was very hard for me and I'll say you know when I wrote the book and it came out and Friends who've known me for a long time you know called and said I cannot believe you wrote that book I cannot believe you gave up uh so much of yourself you know and it all started I'd say probably a good 10 years ago where I was living happily compartmentally compartmentalizing my life and then you start to feel things kind of ease over right and then I decided to give up on the big lie which I call work-life balance right I just don't believe in that and so um but at the same time what had really happened is I started in a new job and I um and I was I thought anyway I was kicking button taking names but I was doing it by myself my team was not with me at all and I had done everything I could to be what I call the perfect black female executive right and what I learned is that level of perfection to other people um was suspect they didn't believe it it was like oh well Charlene's not real you know she's not human and so um my husband and I used to have these really big summer parties and my boss at the time had said well why don't you invite your team to the party and I thought well why would I do that right why would I mix those two people you know and and I worked for one of those companies that say oh well we're like a family and my viewpoint was I have a family I didn't come to work to get a family I have one at home but I you know I listened to him and I invited the whole team um to um to our house for our party and um and prior to that no one even knew my address right I mean I kept things really separate and uh and I thought you know they probably all came because if the boss asks you to a party you come right what's going to happen if you don't but when they came to the party and they all they had a great time we probably had 100 people there you know they got to see me as a person not just their boss right and they saw me interact with my friends and interact with my children and my and my husband and I became very real to them and from that moment on it significantly changed our relationship at work we began to work together better we began to understand each other's sensitivities and each other's strengths and the walls just came crumbling down and I remember thinking oh my gosh and I I had gone to um Church the week before and my pastor had I'd heard it before but my pastor had said people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care right and that brought that to life for me when we had that party and that changed everything for me from that moment on I stopped putting up the walls and I stopped trying to compartmentalize and in doing so I realized how much energy I had put into building up these fences you know and it and it happened I guess just in time because it was a few years after that that I was diagnosed with cancer you know I um I did not work during the first part of my treatment because my doctor said to me um Charlene you understand straight talk so here it is if you work during your treatment you will die you will not make it and I said oh okay that's a pretty clear message and um and while I was out my team put together a team for um a walk for breast cancer they raised thousands of dollars in my name you know and they were there I mean they protected me um you know whenever anybody at work said oh wait how's Charlene doing you know can I give her a call they're like no here's the update I mean it was just it was amazing the difference it makes when you give of yourself what I love about that is the Counterpoint of the straight shooting direct talking doctor so unequivocable you cannot work if you do you'll die and then the soft leadership of your team who are defending you as you're going through the recovery process which to me and as you know this is close to my heart the power of relationships make or break careers every day so in the book you talk about how everyone needs a champion you gave us two great examples your team there and your doctor and you differentiate between mentors and Advocates and so on tell me a little bit more about your thought process around everyone needs a champion sure sure so a lot of companies focus on mentors and and don't get me wrong I think mentors are great um my experience with mentors is when you have a mentor within your company their job is to actually help you assimilate to the company in other words their job is you know they show you where the landmines are but their job really is to make sure you fit into the company and and I just I believe in mentors but I think that's the wrong approach because if we're trying to make you fit into the company then we're immediately telling you don't don't be your authentic self right we want to turn you into another one of us which just is not my personality at all but a champion on the other hand a champion is someone who sees you for who you are and they're usually people who are above you they don't have to be in your organization but there usually are and they're people who are above you who are your advocates in those meetings when you're not in the room right when you are a junior employee and you're trying to climb up the ladder you don't have much opportunity to advocate for yourself right so you need a champion who says hey have we thought about Morag for this job or have we thought about Charlene for this job why aren't we talking about her did you know she did X right or you know you have to have that person who has the credibility the authority and the influence to um to Advocate on your behalf yeah and and the other thing that I would say about a champion and and also an ally is they know the difference between speaking for you and opening the way for your voice to be heard right so often I see a mentor will speak for you and sometimes well-intentioned allies will speak for you good allies and good Champions will say I'm not going to speak for you but I'm going to open the path so that your voice can be heard so that you can use your voice so I I encourage people yes mentors are important because you want to know where the landmines are in your organization but if you want to get ahead and you are really trying to build a career you need champions so for people listening who are thinking okay I need an advocate or a champion or an ally however they want to describe it what advice do you have for how do you get one where do you find them and how do you get one well it it develops a bit organically but not 100 organically right and to your point of what you mentioned earlier about relationships it is about building relationships and I would say I I wasn't calculated in finding Champions but I did find people who were at a higher levels than I was you know what and did I have something in common with them right did I um was there a reason for us to have a conversation and sometimes I would just stop by somebody's office who was senior who knew something that I didn't and I'd say hey can I just just get your thoughts on something and then I'd look around their office and I'd look for points of commonality because we all have more in common than we have different right and so I would look for points of commonality and with some people we stuck we struck up a nice chemistry with others I didn't but with the people where I did um have chemistry with I worked on developing the relationship and so then it it developed quite organically you know and I tell people you know I spoke not too long ago at the um Air Force Academy and I was sitting with two Cadets and someone came by someone a very senior came by who who ran the school for character and Leadership and he was saying to the young Cadets you know hey if you ever need something you know or you want to know how something works please come by and see me blah blah blah you know and then um and then he left and I said to them he just offered to be your Champion don't let that go take him up on that and I'm always surprised how many times that you know we say to people if I can help you if I can answer a question just let me know and we never hear from them right when people say that to you take them up on it yeah and that's it it's a simple it's a simple tactic that can have a prayer found in impact and you were talking earlier about leadership career it's a choice yeah so say more about that yeah so I happen to believe that um one you know I have mantras in my life that that I lead my life through and one is um it's choice not chance that changes your life and often when we go into the workforce especially as women we're told you know put your head down work really hard and someone's going to notice you and pluck you out of obscurity and you're going to have a great career that is the worst career advice I've ever heard in absolutely in my life but when we follow that we often then also follow into the Trap of well this is wrong when is someone going to fix this when is someone going to notice X when is I'm going to even do something about why and my viewpoint of it is quit whining and do something about it if you don't like your circumstances change them right no one has you chained to your desk and if you are get a new job right yeah but the main thing is um I always say to people you know stop waiting for the calvary the calvary is already here and it's you right so quit whining if you don't like your circumstances change them all right I like that that's a theme that comes out strongly throughout that book the whole that nobody's coming to save you if it isn't the right fit then change if you want that promotion then ask for what you want if you want the pay rise ask for it because what's the worst that happens they say no now you have a different choice to stay or go elsewhere the best outcome is that they say yes right and therefore take the informed risk absolutely yeah you know the first promotion I received into the executive ranks um you know I was your typical employee in that I felt I'd been working at that level for quite a while I was getting a little bit bitter because nobody was noticing this great work that I was doing um but then finally I was promoted to a corporate vice president and I happen to have um uh been friends had a relationship a work relationship with the chairman and we were very friendly and I asked him one day and I said you know Dan I've been working at this level for a long time and now you know five years later I'm a vice president what took so long that's kind of bold of me but I asked him the question and he said to me Charlene you never told anybody you wanted to be a vice president you he said do you have um you're married because they knew my husband you have young children at home you know as far as we knew you were on the mommy track not the executive track and you never told anyone anything different right and that was the first time I realized if you want something you've got to ask for it you have to make people aware of what you want and the other thing he said and I'm not picking on men here is he said you know a man will come into an interview and they'll say well what are where do you see yourself in five years and the man will say well I see myself as a vice president in this company that's what I'm working towards whereas a woman will say well you know I just want to bring value right I'm kind of like screw that whatever it is that you're after state it you know how can you get what you want if you don't tell anybody which it shows how everything is interconnected because it's the asking for what you want it's recognizing that there's no white work-life balance you talk about this too there's life and we choose now personally and collectively that the balance of time we're spending with each hat on but also that need for champions again because if you have a career aspiration if you want to be on a project the more that others know at work that dream and hope the more the likely they are to give you the feedback you need to hear that's what you want to hear and as you described earlier when those conversations are happening in a room because let's face it they're happening all the time elsewhere they're raising your name as a possible candidate they are speaking and opening opportunities for you because they know that that's what you aspire to exactly exactly and you know and there's been lots of research and it's well documented that women especially and um and minority women are women of color don't necessarily get the feedback that will help them grow and there are all kinds of reasons for that but when you have Champions when you have people who advocate for you they will give you that feedback right because you you have now shown that you are open to that uh and they will give you that feedback and they'll say you know Charlene you know next time you say that in a meeting or you're trying to get a point across make sure you have the make sure you say the facts behind it so people know that you've done the research right that you've done what you need to do that may not be something that I knew before you know I had a um I I did quite a bit of Crisis Communications work and one of the reasons why I'm good at that is because I stay very calm it takes a lot to get me you know outwardly worked up and I was going into a meeting with the board and one of my Champions said Charlene listen you were so calm about things that are really serious that people don't think that you take it seriously so you need to explain to the board that the you know the the more the proverbial you know crop hits the fan the more the more calm you become and that's why you're good at what you do and I had had a meeting with a presentation with the board before and the feedback out of that was you know this is really serious and Charlene doesn't care about it my champion who was in the room at the time gave me the feedback before the next meeting with the board and so I opened the meeting and I said listen you know one of the reasons why I'm so good at crisis is because I remain calm in a crisis if you ever see me running around with my hair on fire then of something is really not right with me I said but if I'm talking to you and I'm calm I've got the situation I understand the situation if I whisper then you need to be worried because I get more calm the more serious things become and the meeting went completely different than the previous one and I would not have known that otherwise it's interesting because it's making the implicit explicit you know that this is what makes you good but others in the absence of information write their own story and invariably well hardwired right the negative stories and paint the other person as the villain so again your Advocate there your Champion gave you the feedback you needed to hear you were able to articulate Your Truth which changed the perception of others and their willingness to lean in and listen and that to me is a powerful ripple effect that just goes to show that this is a team sport and the more that we can encourage that dialogue and reduce the misunderstandings the more successful we can be together right absolutely and you know there were there were 12 people in that room and it was the one person who happened to have been a champion for me who said something but you don't have to formally be someone's Champion to say hey let me give you a little piece of advice on the next time that you present here right or that you talk about this this topic we need each other to your point it's a team sport so as we come to the end of our time together I'd like you just to share what are the mantras that you live by In This latest iteration chapter of your life yes so um I have three primarily um one is you are enough and I really want people to believe and understand that they are everything they need to be right now right we spend so much time trying to prove to someone that we are enough enough of what I'm not sure but I want people to understand you're everything you need to be and if you start with that as a foundation you can do great things the second is um it's choice not chance that changes your life we all have Choice it's a gift use it and remember that not making a choice is a choice right so um and the third one is seven seconds of Courage I believe with seven seconds of Courage you can do anything and even there's brain science you know neuroscientists will tell you that the first six seconds when you need to make a big choice is all emotion right and we fear it it's when we're in we feel it it's when we're in the fight or flight zone but if you can just hold on to that seven second that's when the other part of your brain kicks in and you can take action so you just need seven seconds to take a deep breath make a decision and take action so those are my three so Charlene powerful words to finish on as I said I'm enjoying listening to you narrate you are enough and I will be listening to it several times over I encourage everybody watching and listening to this episode to do the same it truly is a powerful and inspirational uh life lesson for all of us no matter where you are at your career so how can those listening and watching this episode learn more about you and the work that you're doing right now yeah well I'm happy to share that before I do that I want to congratulate you on your upcoming book I had the pleasure of uh of reading it in advance and I as you know from the email I sent you I absolutely loved the book and I was just like yes yes yes with everything I read so so I encourage everyone to go out and um and order this book because it really is fantastic it's the uh you me we and it's it's out there go get it um where you can get in touch with with me I'm all over LinkedIn under uh Charlene Willis of course my website is