People First! with Morag Barrett

Welcome to this week's episode of People First. And my guest this week is Preston Poor, who is a seasoned Fortune five hundred executive leadership coach and Saylor Award winning author who is deeply committed to helping leaders embrace integrity. in their personal and professional lives. With a rich career spanning more than thirty years at industry giants like the Coca-Cola Company and the Hershey Company, Preston seamlessly integrates corporate strategy with enduring values in his approach to leadership. As a certified Maxwell leadership speaker and coach, a Colson fellow, and the founder of The Poor Group, Preston is dedicated to empowering values-driven leaders to expand their influence. His speaking engagements, which span the globe, focus on key areas such as emotional intelligence, faith in the workplace, and character-first leadership. Preston, welcome to People First. Morag, thanks for having me. We need to shrink that introduction down to at least two sentences. That's a little too long, isn't it? Too much to read. Well, no, no. Well, it's not that it's too much reading. It's great context, especially for people who haven't met you. But I know what it's like when I'm being introduced for a keynote or an event. It can be exhausting listening to your own bio. Yeah. I've learned to tune it out. You're going to tune it out. Well, I was going to ask you, give me a nugget. Give me a nugget. Give me something that's not included in your bio that those listening might be surprised by. Wow. I would tell you that people don't know in my bio, I actually was a part owner of a missile defense company there in Colorado for a number of years and sat on the board of directors there. Entrepreneur, not only in Fortune five hundred, but my dad is a rocket scientist and my family worked for him. So most listeners probably don't know that about me. Wow. Okay. I can say that's a first, a missile defense. Okay. I get fun things when I ask those, you know, like what does Google not know about you? After that stressed reaction of, I think Google knows everything. However, well, thank you for sharing. I appreciate it. Well, we're here today to talk about your upcoming brand new book, which is called How Is Greater Than What? And I know you have a copy there. I have the digital copies in front of me and loved every single page. There you go. How Is Greater Than What? Now, interesting, I'm going to ask, though, chapter one is not even how or what, it's who. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So talk to me about the how, what, who of your book. Yeah, sure. Thanks. You know, it's kind of funny when I was writing this book, Morag, I started working with a guy named Mike Loomis and he started getting... You know Mike? You know Mike? Okay, great. Mike helped me with my first book, Cultivate Small World. Oh, great. Okay. So we have that in common. And Scott. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right. Scott, too. Great. So thank you. But it's funny when you're working with somebody and you have all these thoughts in your head. And if you look at it like a newspaper reporter, you're saying who, what, where, when, why and how. And he started getting all confused about why did we start with how and then title. And now we're start talking about who. And I think the premise of the book is that leadership is an inside-out job. The title, How is Greater Than What, really is that how you do something from a leadership perspective and a management perspective to drive results is more important than the results that you deliver. I tell people all the time that results are table stakes. We just watched a number of college football coaches get fired this past couple weekends, right? They weren't winning. They didn't get results. Some of them were jerks and some weren't. But nonetheless, if you don't get results, you won't even stay in the game. And what I'm trying to do with this book, Morag, is talk to people a little bit and start them with who they are. I play with Simon Sinek a little bit, too, and say, OK, don't start with why. Everybody's familiar with that, right? It's a cliche mantra. It's been out there. It's billions of views on YouTube and that little talk he's got. I think it's fantastic. And so nothing wrong with that. But I want to maybe peel the layer of the onion back a little bit and say, maybe that's not the best starting point. What if we started with your identity, who you are? Do you know your values? Do you know what your character is comprised of? Do you have strength, talents, and abilities? How about your personality makeup, right? Like a Myers-Briggs or a HBDI or those types of things. So I want people to uncover and unpack that who, because if you can lead from who you are, and pushing toward those results, you're not going to move off of that foundation, if you will, the roots that you have. You won't compromise your integrity as you move forward. You'll be more grounded in helping people and things like that. So that's why I start with Who, and that's the first chapter of the book. So I'm curious. I mean, those are big questions. How many days old were you when you worked those out for yourself? I'm still working them out, to be quite frank with you. I tell people all the time that I haven't, they ask me what I wanted to be or what I wanted to do in my life. And I said, well, I still hadn't figured out. I'm fifty eight years old, early retired from the Coca-Cola company and coaching, teaching, training, writing and still trying to figure out that stuff. And so those existential questions I still struggle with. It's not like I have totally figured out, but I have figured out that the best place to start is at the beginning. And you have to kind of circle back and say, OK, who am I and what are my motives? And that's a little bit different than purpose. And how do I think about how do I approach people? Where does that come from? Where do my values come from? And once I started to think about those things and quite honest with you more, when I go to do training and I talk about values, I'll ask people what their values are. They look at me like a deer in the headlights. Mm hmm. Right. And so I try to take them through an exercise about how do you identify those? And then how do those play into your decision-making and everything else that you do in your career or in life? And so I think that's a fundamental place to start. And if you start at why, you may not understand who you're doing, but you have a purpose and you're driving ahead. And if you're not grounded in that, then you might make some decisions, do some things differently than you would otherwise. So I love that idea of reflection of what drives us. And as a colleague of mine, Mary Olsen Menzel, her book, What Lights You Up, is another great catalyst for that because after that deer in headlight moment, it's thinking about when am I firing on all cylinders? When do I get in flow when time just seems to pass effortlessly? That might be an indication of whatever I'm doing in that moment is is aligned with my values. And conversely, when do I get a little feisty? When do I feel prickly or just procrastinate? That might be an indication that whatever is ahead of me is stuff that is antithesis to my values. But you mentioned earlier in passing that your dad was a rocket scientist. your mum as well, we tend to initially get our values implicitly, explicitly from immediate family. To what extent in your work are those values set in stone or are they malleable and shapeable? Yes. Just kidding. Excellent. Done. Mic drop. Yes. My boy. You know, so I think that's good. As you were saying that, Morag, that question or asking that and framing it up, I was sitting back thinking about an interview that I did for an organization in Knoxville, Tennessee, of the Consumer Products Company. And I had to go through like eighteen plus interviews for this job. And I didn't get it, by the way. One of the questions this psychologist asked me, this organizational psychologist, behavioral guy. Because they wanted to dig in a little bit deeper and see what motivated me. And he asked me a question. And he said, what values did you learn from your parents? And mind you, this was probably twenty, twenty five years ago. And I sat there and I thought, you know what? I had never really considered what I had learned or been able to articulate what I learned from my mom and dad. And so I think I shot off the cuff, right? A little bit about hard work, perseverance, those types of things. And it made me reflect and say, wait a second, those are good things. I have learned those from my mom and dad. Absolutely, I have, both of them. But I had to do a little bit more searching about the things that made my heart sing. That's a little bit about the passion that you mentioned. And then what are the values that drive me and motivate me? And I tell people all the time, if you have a sec, I'll just tell you if your listeners are even interested, I have five values. And I share this with people, and they're little, L-I-T-L-E values. Little, L, that's my little acronym, so I can remember it. The first one is love. And you might think that's kind of funny, but there's this phrase I learned a long time ago, based on my faith, that love is not a feeling, it's an act of your will. So it's not this fluffy type of thing, but it's the way you see people, the way you treat people, the way you engage people and act. And so that's the first L. I, little, L-I, I is integrity. T is trust. L is leadership. That's the second L. And then the last one is excellence. And some, not perfection, but I like to do things with excellence. Unlike most people today are listening to this podcast, they may not think I believe in excellence because the way I'm stumbling through things, but that's okay. But those are my five values that I do. And I talk to people and say, okay, if I was in an elevator with you right now, could you tell me what your, maybe even your top two, three values are? And they can't. And that's why I hearken and ask people to look back and reflect and have an exercise that I walk them through. And it's so valuable because it opens eyes. And then they start to lead and manage from a different place once they understand that. So what's the payoff of that if we start to lead and manage from a different place when we know our values? So what? So what? Yeah. Right. What's what's what's that? You know what? It's funny. Mark Whitaker is a friend of mine. Mark Whitaker. Do you know who? Have you heard that name before? Morag. OK, so Mark Whitaker was the subject. He was a informant, if you will, for the largest price fixing scandal in U.S. history. ADM, Archer Daniels Midland. He was a top executive. They were grooming him to be the CEO of And he was doing anything he needed to uh to uh drive that what happened was is that uh he got he got caught on this his wife actually turned him in his life's been made a movie called the informant matt damon stars in it but mark and i got to be friends and i talked to him a little bit about this idea about values and identity he said preston i was doing everything i possibly could to achieve uh the golden ring uh to achieve fame fortune all those things and he said he didn't know what his values were He just valued getting those things, but didn't know exactly why he was doing it because he thought that's what he needed to be doing. And he would tell you, I think, if he sat back, because he went to jail for it. He was convicted, and it was the biggest scandal ever, if you go back and read about all of that. But he will tell you in prison, he had to sit back and reflect about who he was and why he did what he did, what his motive was. And so to answer your question, you have to look at illustrations about the lives of people that have gotten things. Maybe not the best way to do it. Maybe not have gone to prison, but they've done it for self-interest. And I think if you have a values exercise, you start to understand who you are, what your makeup is, how you got those values, like your experiences that you had in your life. And then find out and say, OK, these are these the right values? And actually, how do I shift these and how does this impact my leadership and ultimately the results that we hit? It's a long way around the bush to say that I think that's so important because the the ends or the means don't, or what is it? The ends don't justify the means or whatever that is, right? Necessarily. I think it's just something that we all have to think through. And if you have a chance to do it, it does make all the difference in the world. One other thing I'd add on this is that in my book, I have this concentric circle diagram and I talk about the value of identity. And that's your starting point. And then you start with your purpose. Then you move to your meaning, that which is worthwhile. Then it has another circle, this growing circles. It has calling. And then it moves into vision, mission, and significance. And so I tell I can encourage people to start at the very beginning with that identity and doing just what we discussed, because then everything else, like the root of a tree or the foundation of a house or the beginning circle in that concentric circle diagram will lead to those other things. I love that. Unfortunately, it makes me think of Shrek and his conversation with Donkey and people are like, well, ogres are like onions. They have layers. That's right. But you're right. Often when we come to these conversations as part of a leadership program, or maybe we've applied for a role and had the eighteen interviews like you have and we didn't get it. That's when we start to look at the who am I, why the disconnect, what's happening. But by that time, we're looking from the outside in versus going to the heart of the matter, which is who am I as an individual? So good. One of the things that caught my eye as well that seems counterintuitive, you've got eight great chapter titles. And sorry, I'm not going to give them all away. Spoiler alert, you're just going to have to get the book available on Kindle and in hard copy and paperback from your favorite retailer. However, the two that really caught my eye and I spent time with, one is Talk is Cheap. Hmm. And the other one, stop building trust. What? What? What? So which one do you want to go with first then, Preston? Well, let's start with stop building trust. And so that got your attention, right? And that was the point of that a little bit. So the point is not to build trust. It's the fact that how do you build trust? And so going back to the theme of my book, and one of the things that I learned from Jim Kouzes, who wrote the book, The Leadership Challenge, Jim and Barry, a Jim Kuzis and I actually got to be friends and he endorsed the book, which is pretty cool. But one of the things I learned from them was the importance of integrity and doing what you say you will do. And the idea of that chapter is basically if you demonstrate integrity with your people, you will then be trustworthy. And so it's not about not building trust. It's really about how do you get there? And I share a story in that about where my integrity at the Coca-Cola company was challenged before I left. Going into a code of business conduct, investigation, all that, not something you really want to happen at the end of your career and walk away a little bit of a bittersweet taste. But I walk people through the importance of integrity first and then into the trust and how do you build that. So that's the first one. I'll pause. Is there anything you want to build on that or ask on that or I can move to the talk is cheap piece? Well, integrity is, again, it's a hot button word for me because I've lost count of the number of companies or organizational leaders that say, oh, what are my values? Integrity. And I'm like, yeah, but what does that actually mean? Don't steal the silverware. And some of that, again, it goes back to what you said earlier on. It's table stakes. Wow. So. How do we move them from just being lightweight, trite phrases into something meaningful? And then let's go back to the building trust piece. Yeah, I think integrity has a lot to do with being not only doing what you say you'll do, but being who you say you are. It's the authenticity that you have. Integrity is often confused with honesty. They're the one coin, the two sides of it, and they often get confused. Honesty is being forthright, truthful, and those things versus lying, right? Comparison is the mother of contrast. And so if you look at the two, you can see. on that. But the idea around integrity is just truly do what you say you will do. And if your actions are meeting the words that you're speaking as a leader, whether you're in meetings or one-on-one or whatnot, you promise something, say you're going to do something and you follow through on that, that will build it. It's funny when I was writing this book with Mike Morag, and I remember it because it is exactly, he gave me the exact same comment. He goes, you really want to write a chapter on integrity, but integrity, everybody's talking about that. And how do you make this more than just a I checked the box exercise. You know what? I sat down right on my computer. I said, why do we keep running into it if it's not that big a deal? And all I did more eggs, I went out and looked that day at headlines in the newspaper or not newspaper, but on Google and stuff. And it's funny, the headlines that are out there about people and corruption. or being sex trafficking or any other crime or sin that you might see going on in the world that had something to do with integrity. It's just human nature, right? A lot of these things that we're not integrity often. We don't make the right choices and we're not who we say we are. So I think integrity is just a very foundational thing. It's a trust and integrity are the currency of business in terms of relationships. If you don't have those things, first and foremost, who you are and then with your team and your organization, you're not going to achieve extraordinary things. You won't have credibility with people in your organization. Why now with this book? One of the things that's caught my attention right now is obviously the proliferation of AI and technology. And it is both a boon and a bane. But I'm just thinking about my own sons who are early career and emerging leaders right now and the impact that's going to have on the who, what, where, how, why of work, leadership, teams, et cetera. So how does your book touch on that at this point? What makes it so compelling, do you think, for younger leaders? Yeah, there's a couple of things that I think is very important. I had a great dinner table conversation with somebody about AI. And I was talking about AI and the role that it can play and how it can benefit us and that we shouldn't shrink from it. But there are some some caveats that we need to think about. And one of those caveats was I said, you can get lazy and not think if you use AI a certain way. The other side of that is that AI will help you be more efficient. I use AI all the time for social media things. I used to sit down and think about what I was going to say and how do you post things on LinkedIn and all that. Now it takes me two seconds to say what I want to say and say you're a marketing agent specializing LinkedIn. I need to say this. Can you do it? It gives me two things. I put a picture and it's quick. But it's authentic, right? I say right at my voice. But the challenge that I had with him, this gentleman said to me, he goes, you know what? That's just like technology in the past that somebody said that the, whether it's the telephone or the car or whatnot, that those technologies weren't going to work. You're saying the same thing about AI. And I'm saying, no, I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is to young leaders, You need to learn how to think. You need to have how to use your noodle. It's better to learn how to critically think, analytically think, strategically, all kinds. In my chapter on plans don't win, I talk about the different types of thinking. And if you can form those first and then use AI as a supplement and not as a substitute for. then you'll be successful in your role. And that's how I see it right now. And so I think it's neat. I use it. Sometimes I get ticked to myself because I do get lazy and I say, you know what? I actually want to sit back and actually think about this because I want these to be my words, not AI's is how I look at that. So that'd be my encouragement to young leaders that might be listening today is to learn how to think. Don't let it think for you. You can use it for education, supplementing your work, the things that you do and helping you to become more efficient, but don't acquiesce. your God-given ability to actually think through something and make it your own. So thinking through things, if there's one thing that stood out for me in writing both Cultivate and You, Me, We, is one goes into, or certainly in my case, I go into that process with an idea of what I think this book is about, why it matters, and the content that's going to go in it. And invariably, the crucible of writing life and work shakes that up into the ultimate cocktail mixer and something similar but different comes out. Well, that was a long metaphor for this morning. I think my coffee has just kicked in. However, my question then, Preston, is what did you learn about your leadership and potentially what was surprising about the journey as you sat down to write and publish your new book? Yeah, this, uh, this book is, was, uh, it's a gift. Um, it was painful at times. Uh, it took me, I look back and more, I get to, uh, really a mishmash. It doesn't seem that way, but it's a mishmash of blogs that I've been writing for ten years. And so I went through and I said, I've got this message that I learned while I was at the Coca-Cola company, a leadership philosophy about how it's greater than what. And then how do I begin to articulate that? And there are days that were tough with this book. This is the third one I've written. The first one called a twenty way, twenty one days to sound decision making. I wrote during covid in three months. Piece of cake. My second book was called Disciple Leader. That took me ten years literally to write. It wasn't a conglomeration. It was because working at the Coca-Cola company full-time, that's the journey, waking up at five o'clock, six in the morning on Saturdays and Sundays to write for four or five hours to get that done. That's tough. But that was traditionally published. The first book I mentioned was self-published, and I had a decision with this book. about whether I should publish it by myself or should I do it traditionally. And it is a little bit faith forward. And the interesting thing is that the agent that I was talking to at the time, me that the book was either a little bit too faith forward or it was too what you might say secular so faith-based publishers christian publishers weren't interested in publishing it secular secular publishers weren't interested in publishing it because of what i just told you and guess what the imprint name is it's what i told my agent he said you're stuck in between i said well that's exactly where i want to be and so the imprint publishing name is exactly exactly press Because it's meant to open the aperture, broaden an audience, and engage people on these leadership things that might lead them into some interest in other things that I've done. So that's a long, again, that's it. I guess that's a way of telling you that this journey has been an awesome one. But the decision to self-publish, take control of it, it's harder than one might think. Yeah. It's interesting you talk about your thirty year career at Coca-Cola and Hershey, etc. My career is also decades old and it's kind of like, how did that sneak up on us? But it sounds like you're not quite ready to sit back with the slippers on and just take up knitting or whatever it is that one does when we eventually retire. So what is catching your attention now that you are retired? running free from the corporate environment? What have you created for yourself? Yeah. So now that I've untethered from the Coca-Cola company for about three years, what am I doing and why am I doing it? That motive type thing we asked. I would go back, Morag, and what makes my heart sing? That's almost a similar phrase to what you quoted earlier, was this watching somebody transform Moving from A to B, from two, and seeing a change that's positive in their leadership and their faith or whatever it is, that gets me excited. And so that is really a calling that I have that reverberates in me every day when I get up. And I want to help people do that. And that's what's motivating me. It's not about trying to sell more books. That's that's not the point. The point is getting a text from somebody that said, I read this book and I wish I had this when I was younger or now that I'm an emerging leader. I'm glad I have this now instead of going through all the things that I might encounter. This has been a great lesson for me to hear that type of feedback makes it all worthwhile for me to write, speak, do all that. And if I can touch one person's heart, mind, and soul and encourage them to go through a transformational journey, which will benefit not only them, but it'll benefit their family, their workplace, their community, wherever they are, it'll benefit that whole thing and make a difference. That's what we need in the world. We need more change makers. We need people to do positive things in a positive way. And that's what this book is all about. Fantastic. Well, Preston, I've truly enjoyed our conversation. Thank you for joining me here on People First. Where can people learn more about your work and the book? And what's one last message you would hope our leaders and viewers leave with today? Yeah, thank you. So my last name is Poor, P-O-O-R-E, like I have no money with an E on the end. And so if you go to PrestonPoor.com, you'll see the speaking and the books and all that kind of stuff and check that out and do that. I think, Morag, my overall message is to people, start with who? Start at the beginning, because what that'll do is when you go through that concentric circle diagram that you see in the book, you move and go from identity all the way to significance. That will parlay you, move you into other things like how to connect with people, integrity, how to act with courage, be developed. How do you manage some of these other leadership topics that are out there? And you'll do it differently because you're starting from a different point, maybe one that you need to refigure and correct or a new place for you that you never knew about yourself. And so that's what excites me. And I appreciate the opportunity of being on today with you. It's been a pleasure. Thank you, Preston.