People First! with Morag Barrett

I'm going to just do a brief introduction and then we will kick this off. Welcome to this week's episode of People First. And my guest today is Dave McDonald, who is the owner and president of Better Together, a company founded on Zig Ziglar's philosophy that if you help enough people or enough other people get what they want, you will get what you want. Dave's passion for helping blue-collar workers feed their families began while managing his family's maple syrup farm in Canada, where he discovered the value of hiring the right team. Today, the Better Together group takes pride in its relationship-focused approach, helping businesses increase their productivity and profitability through people. Dave, welcome to People First. Thanks so much for having me. It's a joy to be here. Well, as I was saying in the green room beforehand, it certainly caught my eye that you refer to the business or the businesses named the Better Together group as hashtag Better Together is one of the taglines that we use regularly here at Sky Team. So why don't we just dive in? Tell me, what does a professional relationship at work, what does that mean and look like for you? So like a professional relationship at work is one where both parties understand the expectations, are accountable to those expectations, and they're giving to those and wanting to exceed those expectations. And so from my standpoint, we have a group of recruiters and salespeople and back office admin people and whatnot. And our expectation is really that they bring their fullness to work every day. And we recognize that their fullness varies a little bit and we try to make we try to be compassionate and caring and understanding about those things so um I was talking with a friend of mine today um he's going to put his dog down today because his dog has cancer and his fullness tomorrow is going to be his fullness today and his fullness tomorrow going to be less than normal Um, and as employers, when we have employees going through things like that, we need to be understanding as employees. We need to understand that the expectations are that the deliverables get met. And so you may have to work differently this week. You may have to find different ways to achieve those deliverables, but you should still be seeking to achieve your agreed to, um, outputs every day yeah or every week or every month or whatever timeline that's on I love what you're saying there my heart goes out to your friend because I've been there and had to say goodbye to a treasured pet I've also had to live through the saying goodbye to treasured family members and I think you nailed it is that bringing our best to work it varies and sometimes our best is you know what I managed to get dressed and show up And how we build a team where we're willing to do a little bit more of that give and take. So on those days when I am feeling depleted, you can step up and help us be creative and meet those numbers, because next week you may be depleted and it'll be my turn to take the lead. It is unfortunate in our research and experience as uncommon. Or more uncommon than certainly I would like. So how do you go about building that relationship first, culture and mindset, both within your companies, but also with the client organizations that you are partnering with? Yeah, so let me say carefully, we work at this a lot. We have lots of ideas about this and no solution is perfect for anyone. And so it really does come down to working with each organization independently and and really trying to serve them that way and hear management out and hear ownership out and like creating a dialogue about the whole thing in our own internally to us in our own organization one is um I really try to be transparent myself and so I lost my dad this past year on May the fourth, and I was inconsolable for a significant period of time. I'd actually booked a week of vacation off prior to that. And so I was off that week. So it was a good week of grieving, a lousy week of vacation. And then, but even as I came back, it just took me more more turns to get the same work done. And so my team was understanding about that and they supported me and they really stood up for me in those periods. And they forced me to take the time that I, that I needed, but I had to be transparent about it first before they could take care of me. What do you think stops other leaders from being more transparent at work about what they are truly feeling and experiencing at work and in life? Would you like a nice answer or do you want the truth? Ego. Go for it. Ego. Okay. Say more. Yeah. It's just pride. It's like there's a sense that leaders have to be infallible. That leaders have to be stronger or strong-ass. That leaders have to... just be impenetrable and I think that that's weakness I think that if you can't be transparent about who you are then that creates a very empty life and that creates empty relationships and like the reality is as you see that in some people's marriages which is awful, but you see it very common in the workplace. And if you think back, forty or fifty years ago, thirty years ago, twenty years ago, parents didn't own their mistakes. Parents weren't vulnerable in front of their kids. Rhonda and I, we've been married some years. I'm sorry, I can't come up with it off the top of my head. Sorry, Rhonda. But we've been married a long time. And initially, we didn't fight in front of the kids. But then as they got into their teens, we were like, well, how will they ever have relationships with other people if they don't see how we resolve things? We're not yellers and screamers. My wife is... amazing, miraculous, a gift from God. She's a bunch of amazing things. She's the very best part of me. But it's... So we're not yellers or screamers and that's in different people's personalities. If you're married to a redhead, I'm sorry, that's just your life. Not all redheads are like that. Please don't take that in broad generality. I love redheads. My mom was a redhead. I love that fire in people. But I think that that's one of the big issues is you have to be willing to fail in front of people to show them that there's room for them to fail and there's opportunity then for them to rebound. So it's interesting when we were talking earlier, we were talking about how the generational shifts can cause that friction. And so I know that your daughter is certainly part of Better Together and it's a family business. So what are you seeing and experiences as generations come in? Because I know when I started work, being told it's not personal, it's just business, leave your emotions at the door. and that was the the overlay that I was inheriting and it's taken me a long time to let go of that and to start bringing more of that vulnerability and you know not everything is perfect heaven forbid behind the scenes but I'm wondering if you're seeing that accelerate as I look at my sons I'm certainly starting to see shifts and less tolerance for where words and actions might differ they will call their elders on it What are you seeing and experiencing? Well, if you ask my kids, they would say I'm the author of do as I say, not as I do. That was not my original thing, but most people fall into that at some stage of parenting and leading. I think the reality is that we need to meet people where they're at, and we need to support them in a journey together. And you can't journey with somebody. If you think just about the concept of being on a road trip with somebody or being on a camping trip with somebody, they're going to see all of you. They're going to smell your bad breath in the morning. They're going to, you know, they're going to, they're going to know it all on a journey. And so if, if our working life is a journey, I think you need to be transparent enough with people to share the good and the bad. And but really to have the best interest of each other at heart. We had a young lady who's worked for us for two years now on a part-time basis and Um, she resigned through the Christmas holidays. Um, she had a better opportunity. And so I just tried to communicate my appreciation for the time that she was with us and my excitement about her future employees leave. That's what happens. Something better does come along and, and as employers, we should celebrate that for them. And, and we shouldn't, um, We shouldn't be wooed into some kind of, well, I'll give you an extra. No, man, if you were gonna give it to him, you should have given it to him. If you think that there's a time to renegotiate when they're bringing you a resignation letter, that's bad business, in my opinion. Yeah, you've left it too late because somebody has been thinking about whether or not to leave for weeks, if not months before the do you have a minute conversation. And so that last minute gasp of what can I do to keep you was maybe well-intentioned can often backfire because the reasons I've chosen to leave are still there. So I get the pay rise. I stay. But six months from now, no doubt. I will still reconsider whether or not I should move on. And so to your point, healthy turnover should be anticipated. For me, it's the what is the story that this person is going to tell of their time at Better Together Group? Is it one that's uplifting of, wow, they built me and that's what enabled me to get this next great opportunity? Or are they, oh, my goodness, that place was terrible. You wouldn't want to go there. And hopefully it's the former and not the latter. And if more leaders thought that way, I think it would help create a culture of connection. It would help translate some of the posters that we see in every company about integrity, teamwork, customer service into reality and behaviors that stick every single day. Yes, I agree that. And I also think that it's best to measure those attitudes at the five year mark, not the five minute mark after they leave you. When they leave you, they're leaving for a reason. And some of it's some of it's their opportunity and some of it's misgiving about the company. But let them have a couple more turns around the sun before you really, you know, get uptight about what they were thinking as they walked out the door. When you're working with your clients, then how do you help them to identify the characteristics that they should be prioritizing for their unique circumstances in terms of hiring new talent into their organization? Well, they say that culture eats strategy for breakfast. And so if you want to have a place that has good culture, it shouldn't vary from role to role. Cultural characteristics should be throughout the whole organization. And they're going to be in a different measure in a different amount one may have five ounces when another person has ten ounces but they need to be on the same track and then going moving in the same direction so for us we talk a lot about um the three eyes intensity integrity and intentionality and we want everyone to have a level of intensity of fire burning in them We want everyone to have a level of intentionality. Like don't let that fire run uncontrolled, get that fire on tracks and pointed in a good direction. And then integrity is the thing that, so the way I describe it is integrity holds intensity in the firebox of a furnace. And intentionality is the heating vents that run off the furnace, getting it to the right parts of the house in the right amounts. But fire, you got to have a fire. If you don't have if you're all systems and processes, you're in trouble. If you're all fire, it's you know, that's going to burn down the house. And so integrity holds those two pieces in line. I like the way they connect. So that was integrity, intentionality, and intensity, those three. So for somebody who's listening to this podcast, who's thinking, you know what, my intensity, my fire has gone out. And they're thinking that twenty twenty five is going to be their transition year. Yeah. I started looking at necessarily they haven't had a conversation at work. What advice would you have for somebody who's just starting to see that spark and think well what should I do next well what I would say is um Depending on life style and age and whatnot, you're going to approach that probably a little bit differently. If you're old like me, you're going to take some time to reflect and find the things that have fueled your fire in the past and stoke the fire with those things. So the things that stoke my fire are people. Um, if you're younger and new, um, to the workforce, um, you might need to try a few different things and that's okay. Um, we had a sales lady that was working for us. And I honestly, when I hired her, I thought she'd stay with us forever. She was such a great cultural fit. She really, uh, was a light. She was a bright light in our organization. And when she gave me her notice back in the fall, I was sad because I was putting a lot of expectation on her future. But she'd been with us for three years and she just wanted to try a different industry. She was killing it in sales, but she wanted to do something with less after hours work, more nine to five box, more tangible, less... Um, and we sell, we sell services around people. Like how do you guarantee that I'm going to come in and consult with you and tell you how to do something and it's going to work sometimes and it's not going to work sometimes. And it's how we respond to that that makes it better. Does that make sense? Yeah, so tell me more about that. Let's look at the dark side to start with. Thinking back through your career then, a relationship at work, a people at work where there was more friction, it wasn't running smoothly. How did you handle it then? And on reflection, either how could you have handled it differently or what have you carried forward from that experience? Yeah, the confidence and exuberance that I had in my thirties And in my twenties, like I started managing a team of fifteen people when I was twenty five years old. That's a lot of responsibility for a guy like me. I my ears weren't yet fully dry. I was, you know, I was a pretty rough rube at twenty five, but I thought I knew everything. And so what I know now is I know now less than I knew then. um or and so for me today I'm more of uh well tell me more about that like let's walk through this together I want I want to bring conflict to my work environment I want people to disagree with me um I want to resolve the conflict I don't want I'm going forever um if if we can't get in line within a couple of days or a couple of weeks then We just need to call it. And that's a point where it's just business is true. Like that's that there are times when that statement is legitimate and it's like, look, I don't wanna hold you back. We're obviously not aligned. And so we need to make some decisions. Either we gotta get in alignment or we gotta find a nice way to part. And that's really difficult. And there's so much legal impact around all of that, that we have to be aware of and prepared for. But when I was young, I knew everything and I told everybody that I knew everything. And then I proved that I didn't know everything. Yes, it does. And what I like there is that you show us a glimpse of the culpable negligence, I call it, but it wasn't just necessarily the other person who wasn't aligned with you. It's recognizing that maybe your ego, our self-confidence in the youth of our leadership. caused us to have the blinkers on that maybe perpetuated that situation. So on the other side of the coin, tell me about a relationship at work, somebody you would jump at the chance to work with again. Who comes to mind and what made them special? Wow, that's a really interesting question. Jerry has passed, but one of my original mentors who fired me eventually. I'd love to work with that guy again. He was so good and patient with me and a really good mentor. He was very detail oriented. He always had these pads of eight and a half by eleven, but grid paper and a fine point mechanical pencil that he took his notes on. And he was so organizing, really was a heck of a man and I, he smoked cigars in the office and blew the smoke after. But it was, it was a great time of life and I, you know, Yeah, Jerry Bain would be a great guy that I worked for that I'd love to work with again. People that have worked for me in the past. I brought a lot of people back over and over again. I kind of like to repeat my mistakes sometimes, not intentionally, but like I'm most comfortable with people that I know. And so I know Jeanette worked like this and did these things. And so she was great at some things, but there's always a reason why there's a parting of ways. I was talking to one of my competitors recently and they have a strict policy. They never bring anyone back. And I'm like, I think that's like, there's gotta be something in the middle there. Yes. So my wife and kids won't let me rehire a bunch of people. There's people on the list that are like no hires. And I think anyone within. Twenty four or thirty six months is probably not a great choice. You got to give it time to breathe and for for them to appreciate what they've lost and for you to appreciate what you've lost, perhaps. What you can gain in terms of fresh and new perspectives that they can bring back. So tell me a little bit about Better Together Group. And what is it about the business then that keeps your intensity alive? Thank you. So Better Together Group is on the employee side when we're putting people out to work. We talk a lot about feeding families one shift at a time. And that's inspiring to me. When I was in my mid-twenties, like I mentioned, I've been in a lot of jobs. I often say I've been fired from every good job I ever had. And I don't think I quit any good jobs anyways. But I... really struggled financially at times in my life. And so helping people put bread on the table for their family is really important to me. And so all of our charitable stuff, we started to focus around all of our give back is to food banks and things of that nature to kind of keep that in alignment. And then on the company side, which are probably most of your listeners, Um, we're really focused on profitability and productivity through people. It's like, how do you, how do you work with the ones you got and how do you get better ones when you, when you're looking for an upgrade? And so that involves, you know, less of an interview process and more of a conversation. I've really started to go to let's have a coffee. I don't want to interview you. I want to talk to you. I want to know more about you as a person. You can't say culture is more important and then run them through a list of fifty questions about tasks. Let's sit down and have a conversation, understand who you are. You can understand who we are and then we can decide if we want to have another conversation about a role. But you can't even get to the role conversation until you like, do you like me? Like, can you see this face every day? Can you deal with this? And I try to be very transparent in those conversations about what I'm like. And, you know, yeah. So that's kind of that's my take on on starting an interview process is really meeting with people more about who they are and what they want and less about who I am and what I need. I love what you say. There is something that we're passionate about here at Sky Team, which is bringing your whole self to work, getting to know your colleagues beyond the name badge and the job title, to your point, the tasks that they may be responsible for today, and getting to understand, like your friend who's having to say goodbye to their pet, or to you sharing that the loss of your dad and consultants is there, but bringing our whole selves, because then we can bring our whole selves together and make that magic that differentiates us from any other service provider who says they're doing a similar line of work. Yeah. Better together really for us represents understanding that none of us are a whole package. Um, And, you know, God love the type a people that are like out there hard driving and, and, you know, um, knocking heads and taking names. That's great. But they generally need a sweeper to come behind them and just clean up the mess. Um, and some of them are moving so fast. They're like, well, I, I don't, I don't care about the mess. I just run over it and it'll all be fine. You know, they want to bring in, um, compaction equipment just to pound that down and make it part of the asphalt so they can move forward. I really think that we need to work with people and draw the best out of each other and seek a way that we can move forward either together or sometimes apart, but better for moving forward. So at Better Together, I know your mission is twofold, to help your clients boost productivity and profitability. You mentioned that earlier, that the bottom line does matter, but we do that by hiring the right team members, the right people. And your second mission is to ensure that job candidates can feed their families and fulfill their ambitions. Two powerful missions at Better Together Group. Where can people learn more about the work that you and your team are doing? So bettertogethergroup.com is the simplest place. Or if you want to hear me wax non-eloquently and sometimes fight, but most often laugh with my daughter, we have a podcast called X to Z, and it's just X-T-O-Z, for my Canadian friends, .org. And so we do a lot of conversations like this. And, you know, sometimes we're just laughing about ourselves and mistakes we've made or some exciting things that we're working on. But those are two great spots. Thank you, Dave. I'll make sure to include all of that information in the show notes. Best of wishes to you and your whole team. And thank you for joining me here on People First. Thank you so much. Happy New Year to you. Thanks for having us on. Thank you.